Posts filed under ‘discipline’
The Frontline of Parenting: Gum and Outfits
Here are a couple of the sticky issues popping up with our three-year old these days.
CLOTHES
Echo: No! I wanna wear the polka-dot dress I wore yesterday!
Me (inner dialog): Crap. I don’t want her to wear that dress again. I’m kind of sick of that dress. And it’s out in the hall, stuffed in that bag. I don’t want to go out in the hall, I’d rather pick from all these clean clothes stacked right in front of me. (Outer dialog): You want to wear that dress you wore yesterday? I think it’s dirty. But there are lots of other dresses right here. How about this rainbow polka-dot dress?
Echo: NOOOOOOOOOO! The other one! The other one! The other one!
Me (inner dialog): Holy shit. I am going to go crazy with the screaming. I don’t like this. This isn’t worth it to me. Why do I care if she wears the same dress again. What’s the big deal? Why am I swimming upstream like this? (Outer dialog): Well let’s check out the dress and see how dirty it is.
Echo: OK
Me: I know you’re upset but while we are walking toward the dress will you stop making the loud noises you’re making? It’s just really hard for me when you are so close to my ear.
Echo: OK
Me: (inner dialog): Well it’s really only a little dirty. I can let this battle go. (Outer dialog): Here it is. A little dirt on it.
Echo: Waaaaaahhhh! But I want to wear it!
Me: Yeah. I just said it was a little dirty, I didn’t say you couldn’t wear it. Do you want it?
Echo: (sniffling) Yeah.
As a side note, there are plenty of times that Echo is really upset, screaming, crying, and I do not give her what she wants. I complied in this instance because in the end it made very little difference to me, it wasn’t important enough to me to fight against her feelings. In other cases, especially where safety is concerned or other health issues are involved I might react to her crying with empathy, but not offer to give her what she is asking for. If, for example, she were asking to be able to continue to hit her sister, or cross the street without looking, I would hold her and empathize, enduring her screams until they finished on their own. I do not believe that strong feelings indicate manipulation on the part of the child. If they themselves are not subjected to manipulation by their parents, then strong feelings are just that, intense emotional reactions to the current issue.
GUM
Echo: Mom can you move a chair over here so that I can climb on the counter?
Me: Why?
Echo: Because then I can reach the gum.
Me: (frustrated) I don’t want you to have gum right now, I’m putting food into a bowl for you right now.
Echo: Please move the chair Mom? I just want to HOLD the gum.
Me: (exasperated) You’ll wait until after dinner to eat it? You’ll just hold the pack?
Echo: Yeah. Thanks Mom. I choose bubble gum. Will you not look Mom?
Me: (suspicious) Echo… Even if I’m not looking I want you to wait until after dinner to chew the gum.
Echo: I will! Just don’t look. I’ll just go in the bedroom.
Me: (following behind, getting angry) Echo, I’m serious. I’m feeling mad, and if you eat that gum I will feel REALLY mad.
Echo: I’m just going to hold it and jump on the bed.
Too frustrated to stay engaged, I close the door.
Later Echo emerges, and moves to my side where, in delight? fear? triumph?, she opens her mouth to show me the unchewed pink rectangle sitting on her tongue. Without thinking my hand zips out and yanks that gum right out.
Echo: Waaaaaah! I’m going to get ANOTHER piece!
Me: (infuriated, chasing behind, and scooping her up, thinking: Holy shit. I am so pissed. But crap this is really going in a bad direction. Now she is afraid of this gum-yanking, chasing mother, and thinking that if only she hadn’t shown me, stayed hidden, she wouldn’t be in “trouble”.) Echo love. Let me hold you. Let’s talk about this. Was it scary when I chased you and picked you up?
Echo: Yeah and I really want that piece of gum!
Me: Why did you hide and eat the gum after you told me that you would hold it until after dinner?
Echo: Because I really wanted it and I thought you’d be mad.
Me: I’m mostly mad because you told me one thing and did another, not so much about the gum.
Echo: Oh.
Me: (snuggling)When we make a deal I like it when you do the deal, not something different. That way I know for sure that you are telling the truth. If you wanted the gum I would rather you had said: “Mama, I can’t wait until after dinner. I want the gum too badly.” Then we could have worked something out… You really wanted that gum.
Echo: Yeah.
Me: Well here’s that piece you had in your mouth. Let’s put it right next to your bowl so that’s it’s ready for you, right away, after you eat.
Echo: And I can suck on it between bites.
Me: (inner dialog): I’m feeling reluctant and pretty grossed out by that idea but it feels worth it to negotiate. (Outer dialog): OK
These have been trying moments. Wearing the dress one more time was no big deal once I got my feet moving out of my stubborn attachment to a clean, fresh outfit, and toward what would work for Echo. In the end a repeat outfit is small potatoes. But gum has become a struggle. As a Mom my desire for gum to come after dinner, or after breakfast, is intense. I tell myself that chewing gum will ruin her appetite, that food particles will mix with the gum and then …and then…? There isn’t really any sound logic. The gum is good for her teeth. She chews, maybe, one piece per day. What it really comes down to is that I have a preference. Gum is not life or death.
I guess I unconsciously think that if she has gum when I don’t want her to then it’s a downhill slide to other, more undesirable actions. Drawing on the walls today, beer bongs and frat parties tomorrow. It’s silly really because intellectually I know that freedom to make safe choices as a child leads to safe, well thought-out choices later in life. Putting her on lock-down only leads to more resistance, more lying, and more hiding. I think I’d rather Echo suck on a pice of sugarless gum in between bites of soup.
My relationship with her is more important than the proper sequence of dinner and gum, and I almost blew that by attempting to bully her into compliance. By chasing her through the living room, reaching for the pack, desperate to keep her from defying me, from selecting another rectangle of sweet rubber. The pack itself cost $1.09, which means that each piece is worth six cents. Even if she managed to cram thirteen pieces into her mouth before we had a chance to talk it through, that’s a fair price to pay for parenting my daughter with empathy and respect.
I’ll remember that for next time. And if the polka-dot dress is the selection for tomorrow… well, if you see us around town, just give us an understanding smile.
Did I ever Mention This?
This is my girl today. Eyes ablaze, striking first, screaming second, pissed.
My logical, solution-seeking brain wants to know why? I scan through the last twenty-four hours. Did she get enough sleep? Food? What the bleep is wrong? Eventually I come to my senses, it doesn’t matter. I feed her all the time and we strive for as much sleep as possible. There aren’t days where I let sleep slide, or forget to offer nutrients, so even if I found a culprit to blame there still wouldn’t be anything to do differently in terms of physical needs.
After flailing about in this direction, I remember that I can still address emotional needs and quickly pull out empathy and information.
Empathy: Oh Echo. I see you’re really upset, really mad.
Information: When you scream at Bella like that she turns away from you and doesn’t want to play. Can I help you talk to her and figure out a solution?
I use my face to show understanding, I make myself physically available in case a hug or snuggle is desired, and I keep listening, searching for deeper feelings that can be empathized with. This is our formula and it works. It is time-consuming, at least in the moment, (although I’d argue that time-outs, threats and bribes take more time out of your life in the long-term), and quite verbal, but our children thrive under this system.
That being said, I’m not sure I’ve ever mentioned the fact that I also use physical restraint. Today, empathy is reaching Echo’s ears, but not before she lands a few blows. Once I caught wind of her fierce temperament this morning I have been quick to slide my body between hers and her adversary. When the safety of others is involved I follow the same formula, while gently but firmly holding Echo in my arms.
Empathy: Oh Echo. You’re really mad. You want to hit her, huh? Oh you’re sad too? You wanted to play with that toy and she picked it up before you had a chance.
Information: You want me to let you go so that you can hit her and scratch her? Well, I think I’m going to continue holding you so that your sister stays safe. When you hit her she feels mad and probably won’t give you the toy. Do you want help figuring something else out?
It’s a safety clause but you have to be very mindful when you use it. It’s tempting to convince yourself that you are keeping others safe when in reality you are looking for ways to justify controlling your child’s movements. It’s better for your relationship to assume the best and be mistaken than to continuously and thoughtlessly jump in and use restraint. In addition, blocking a blow to spare another child harm is very different from grabbing an arm as an expression of your own anger. Empathic restraint is a short-term, temporary measure to protect others, the real, effective work is being done by your words, expression, and empathy.
poke, poke
There is never a dull moment around here. Even the mundane tasks are accompanied by outrageous outbursts, and dramatic exchanges, all adding up to straight-up absurdity. I guess houses with children are like this. Last night while making mac and cheese Xi ran into the kitchen.
“NALLIE!!! I don’t want her to stab me with a unicorn…”
“Oh.” I shout, ” ECHO SHE DOESN’T WANT YOU TO STAB HER WITH A UNICORN!”
Echo slumps out of the bedroom. “But I want to ask her something!”
So I say, “Xi she wants to ask you something.”
And Xi says, “I don’t want to talk to her” and then she slumps into the bedroom.
It’s all sounding crazy to me and I don’t understand a lick of it so I go back to stirring noodles when I hear Echo rummaging around the toys and saying to herself, “I’m going to get a pointy unicorn and swing it at her! I’m gonna stab her right in the leg with the horn! I’m gonna…”
So I say, “Ya know, I just don’t think that will work for you love. Xi is just going to get upset and then you will get upset and then you won’t get to ask her what you want to ask her”. Echo trundles in to the bedroom anyway, despite the obvious logic of my reasoning and the obvious lack of logic in her tactic. So I dutifully follow, figuring that keeping the children safe is really the bare minimum requirement of parenting.
I enter to see Echo ramming a plastic unicorn horn into Xi’s leg saying, “I’m gonna poke her! Poke! Poke!”. I make a move to intervene when Xi stops me.
“No Nallie, don’t stop her, it doesn’t hurt.”. And letting Echo know she is failing, she says, “Echo this unicorn is too soft. It doesn’t hurt me.”. And then things get really confusing when she says, “How ’bout you try and bite me??”. They then start gleefully pursuing each other around the house.
See what I mean? Absurdity.
This is why I make the argument that making rules, such as No Hitting, or No Biting, doesn’t make sense. There are only actions and reactions. Needs and feelings. On this day, for Echo and Xi at least, biting was a perfectly delightful game. Apparently far preferable to unicorn horn poking. You never would be able to predict that.
I think most parents do too much work. They enter into arguments, try to determine a truthful chronology of events, then single out which is the victim, which is the aggressor, huff and puff about poor choices, figure out a punishment and hang around enforcing the punishment. Sheesh. If you use empathy for all parties, give and gather information about needs and feelings instead of the classic crime and punishment scenario you are freed from this chore, freed from the pressure to have the answers. Holding both children, listening to their concerns without judgement, leaves room for them to find their own solutions.
I certainly would never have come up with the “let’s bite each other instead!” solution. They came to this on their own. And even though it makes no sense to me it makes sense to them. That’s what matters. Their relationship was at play in this scenario. Let’s face it, in an ordinary household Echo would have been put in timeout for her actions. I would then have been monitoring the time-out instead of stirring noodles. She would have been crying about her isolation instead of thinking about Xi’s feelings and figuring out a way to work it out. And Xi would have been denied a playmate, and a chance to interact in a way that felt better to her.
A few minutes later Echo approached Xi with two different unicorns, and these apparently were pointy enough to make Xi yelp when Echo stabbed them at her ankles. At this point I asked Echo if she wanted attention from Xi. She said yes, so I helped her formulate a request. She then approached Xi, sans unicorns, and said;
“Xi, I want your attention. Will you give me some?”
Xi smiled, bent down, and scooped Echo up. “Sure!”
If Echo were wailing away in time-out this happy ending would not have been possible. If I had demanded that the children make sense in the first place I wouldn’t have been able to guess at Echo’s need for attention, and Xi wouldn’t get the satisfaction of meeting that need. If absurdity and strong emotions weren’t both welcome in our home we wouldn’t get the opportunity to work our way through, albeit in a kooky manner, conflict.
Pokey unicorns. You just never know where it’s going. But the best part is that you don’t have to.
out with the old
There have been a flurry of questions about the previous posts. We have always been empathic parents, even when using both praise and punishment, but now we use empathy as our primary tool, and leave praise and punishment out of the equation. Here is what our transition has been like.
Bella, now nine years old, was four when Nathan and I decided to go cold turkey with praise and punishment. When we told her we would no longer be giving her time-outs, and that we would offer empathy and information instead, her eyes widened and a big grin slid across her face. She was delighted. Her sister Xi was two at the time, but began immediately to reap the rewards of the new parenting style as well since we didn’t have to set her down in order to rush Bella off for a time-out. Nor did she have to endure the shouting that occurred every time Bella fought against the very idea of a time-out. Instead, Xi remained in arms while we held Bella and sorted through the trouble. Echo, born a couple years later, has been parented with empathy from the get go, and has had the benefit, in addition to her parents, of two sisters handling her baby demands and screams with sincere empathy and problem solving instead of eye rolling and threats.
As we shifted toward empathy as our main response, the main thing we noticed was the tendency for the child to still squirm away from responsibility. Accustomed to a disagreeable consequence, they would still do things to evade punishment, like distorting the facts of the situation to paint themselves in a better light. We had to continuously remind them that there was not going to be a time-out, that they could be completely honest with us and we would still hold them, love them, and work it out with words.
That being said, although both Nathan and I parent this way all the time, the co-parents of Bella and Xi do not. So some of these difficulties with candor still occasionally pop up today. We find that the more time, proportionally speaking, the child spends in another environment, the more often these difficulties arise. The daughter that spends most of the week away from us, might, during a moment of strife, first respond with a lie, (before she realizes this is unnecessary), in an effort to protect herself from the punishment she is accustomed to receiving at her other home. The second daughter, who spends less time away from us, might twist the facts just slightly before remembering that she doesn’t have to. The third daughter, who is with us all day, every day, cops to an offense immediately. “I wanted that toy so I grabbed it from her and then I punched her!“
In addition to learning that there was no longer any reason not to be honest with us, the girls also had to learn that we were being honest with them. Our questions about their emotional state were not rhetorical. At first, if we asked “How do you feel about that?“, we often got a reluctant, disgruntled, “Fine“, in return. They did not yet know that we really did want to know how they felt, we really did have every intention of not only discovering their opinions but also factoring them in completely, and using this information to find solutions that met everybody’s needs. It took time to build their trust.
Parenting in this new way also required a little restructuring of our days. It took awhile to get used to allowing for time in the moment to see an empathic discussion through to its end. We are now aware that in comparison, time is actually saved by parenting in this manner. For example, leaving the grocery store in order to carry out that common threat: “If you can’t stop ________, then we will have to leave the store!“, is even more inefficient than taking a moment to actually be with a child while he melts down in the cereal aisle. When using empathy, information, and patience as your primary parenting tools, designing a simple day for you and your children becomes a necessary practicality. If you are unwilling to forcibly strap your toddler into their car seat when they resist buckling up, squeezing several back to back appointments into one day just isn’t smart.
Eliminating praise took some getting used to as well. The very idea that sweet sounding words like “Good job“, and “Well done!” might be harmful is a bit of a brain twister. We certainly slipped on occasion, but by and by, the other, simply observational ways of responding, became second nature and now we hardly think of it at all. But let’s face it, even if we no longer praise our kids, %99.9 of the rest of our culture does. There is no way to avoid it.
When confronted with a stranger that wants to let my kid know she is a “good girl, good traveler, or good helper, ” I might say something like “Oh, we don’t do the whole good/bad thing.” and smile. This is, of course, completely confusing to them (not to mention unheard of) and certainly will not change their future behavior, but I do it to be true to myself and to honor my girl. Though it is tempting to try to convert others to interact without praise, the challenge is too big, and the numbers of praisers too immense. Instead I soothe myself with the idea that there is an oasis here at home, a place where they are loved unconditionally, and that the time they spend in this environment is rich and influential.
We also check in with our girls after they hear a bit of praise from others. The bank teller said you were a good girl. Why do you think she said that? How did you feel when she said that? Or, we offer additional information so that they might hear the intent behind the words.
I think Grandpa said “Good Job!” about your drawing because 1. he loves you so much, 2. he wants you to feel good and thinks that might be a way to communicate that, and 3. he likes the drawing.
We give them information that there are all kinds of opinions about everything, and that if they are feeling good about their work, if they are meeting their own goals, that might be the best way to identify whether or not it’s a job well done.
Praise is a potent thing. After receiving praise, even once, I hear Echo using it around the house. Little whisperings to herself like: Good Job Echo!. Or she will ask: is this a good job mom, the way I am scrambling these eggs? I try to understand what she is looking for by asking her some questions.
Are you wondering if I like what you are doing? Yes I do.
Are you wondering if what you are doing is helpful to me? Yes it is.
Are you wanting me to notice that you know how to scramble eggs all by yourself? Yes. I see you. You didn’t know how to do that before, but now you do.
It takes a lot of self-confidence to do something in a way that others do not. The odds are that we will be the only parents at the park that do not scream “Good job!” as our child careens down the slide. The odds are that several parents will consider our empathy and negotiations “permissive”. Though we now take this in stride – our self empathy (when we were feeling lonely because we did not fit into the parenting norm) and our finding a supportive community were both crucial to the success of our transition to this empathic style of parenting.
Although this transition started by leaving praise and punishment behind, we continue to transition by:
*looking really closely at each interaction
*unlearning our automatic responses
*being mindful of what is most important in every instance
*and holding the integrity of our relationship with these girls as the highest priority.
And so far, I have no regrets.
oh yeah, and…
In the last post I talked about praise and abandoning it, in all its forms, for the sake of your child. Then today, as the girls got into one scrap or another, I realized that perhaps now might be a good time to talk about punishment too, or more specifically leaving it behind as well. I know the idea of ditching both praise and punishment, is, for many of us, almost too radical. Or maybe we can support the idea of using less praise, or less punishment, but not forsaking them entirely. Most of us still imagine scenarios in which punishment is not only necessary, but wise.
Violence, for example.
For a really long time, when I entered the room and saw one child physically assault the other, (hauling back with a solid punch, or a wicked scratch to the face), my automatic instinct was to swoop in quickly, silently, and suddenly, grab the offenders arm, and forcefully boom something like, NO! NOT OKAY! in the scariest voice I could muster. The urge to stop them in their tracks, scare them out of their wits, and swiftly deal out justice was incredibly strong.
Today my feelings about one child hurting another are the same: strong, hot, and sudden. But my response is no longer automatic, scary, or aggressive. We figure if we want to teach them that violence hurts, and that it is not helpful to their argument, then for goodness sakes, swooping in aggressively with our own violent force certainly sends the wrong message. We have reprogrammed ourselves to respond with empathy instead, not just for the apparently wounded either, but for the aggressor as well. The aggressor? Yes. Its counterintuitive, I know.
Hitting is always an expression of a feeling, usually anger, maybe frustration or despair. We believe it is beneficial to allow our children all of their feelings, no matter what they are, and to help them through them. Though we do not want them to hit each other, we are still going to assist them with the strong feelings behind the hitting. The idea is to give empathy for all feelings, even if we don’t like how they are expressing them. One tendency might be to give empathy to the wounded child in order to send a message to the child that hit. But this, though more subtle, is still manipulative and still punishment. Love withdrawal, no matter how it is clothed, is still punishment. (Again, read Unconditional Parenting by Alfie Kohn, if you are still wondering about punishment.)
This is how it works:
Parent enters the room to see Alex punch Evan in the head.
Parent: “Woah! Hey! Do you guys need help?! Evan are you alright?” (Immediately holding both boys, if they allow it, or at least touching them in a caring way.)
Evan: “He hit me!” (crying)
Parent: ” Yes he did. You didn’t like that. Is your head hurting?”
Evan: “Yeah”
Alex: (interrupting) “Well he grabbed that truck from me! And I was playing with it!”
Parent: “You didn’t like it that he took that truck. You feel pretty mad about that?”
Alex: “Yeah”
Parent: “You felt so mad that you wanted to hurt him.”
Alex: “Yeah! I just wanted to bam him!”
Parent: “Yeah. You were so mad. Evan got hurt when you hit him. Were you scared too Evan?”
Evan: “Yeah. I didn’t like that.”
Parent: “No you didn’t.”
Often, after plenty of this kind of empathy, when the kids feel both heard and understood, they are willing to work things out.
Parent: “So you both really want that truck.”
Alex and Evan: “Yeah.”
parent: “Do you guys have any ideas how both kids can get what they want?…….”
This might look like a lot of work when typed out, but we found that enforcing punishments was far more taxing. In fact, I have found this method of “empathy instead” extremely liberating. This morning the girls were arguing over a necklace. Echo had a necklace that Xi had set down in order to get a snack. Xi had the intention of picking the necklace back up and continuing to play with it after she was done eating, but Echo had every intention of continuing to play with the necklace and flat out refused to return it. I found myself getting anxious. I didn’t know who to side with, I couldn’t remember any snacktime-break-from-playing precedent in the recent past, and I was plain tired of their squabbling. Then I realized I didn’t have to have the answers! I could simply have empathy for them both. In the end they came up with a solution on their own, one that never would have been embraced if a parent had imposed it.
If, after giving empathy and negotiating a solution, you find that you still want to address something like hitting or sharing, find a moment removed from the current scenario. Snuggling up in bed, waiting for a red light, or walking to the library are perfect opportunities to talk about taking turns and expressing feelings in ways that keep other kids safe. Your children will actually be able to hear you if they aren’t in the middle of defending themselves, or processing heated emotions.
Hitting and our responses to these unsavory behaviors are big topics. Its important to give yourself lots of empathy while figuring out the best way to parent your children through these moments. There is ego to deal with, painful memories of our own childhoods to sidestep, huge aspirations to live up to, and peer pressure to maneuver through. The parenting adventure is fraught with pitfalls so go easy on yourself no matter where you are in your process.
February 26, 2010 at 10:21 pm nataliechristensen 12 comments
you’re so smart
Natalie I found it so interesting to watch you with Echo. Typically, after an event like that, I expect people to heap praise onto a child. But, by doing that I understand that you’re beginning a lifetime of the good/bad – praise/punish cycle. As a child I did not respond well to that model. So I’m curious as to what it looks like to not do that.
But, as I watched Echo write her name i got really excited…I could easily imagine myself saying things like “Oh look at you, you’re so smart…so good, blah, blah.” So, my question to you is: Do you have to fight an urge to say things like that?
The answer is yes, sort of. I was really excited when Echo wrote her name. I was fairly bursting inside, but I did not want to influence Echo’s experience with my own value judgments of good or bad, smart, or not, etc. I use her feelings as my model. In this case she was almost blase so I remained pretty neutral. (If she had been ecstatic I would have jumped up and down with her.)
Real life examples are:
“Oh wow! You are jumping!” not “Good jumping Echo!”
“Oh yah, I see it. How do you like it?” not “Great drawing! You are such a good artist!”
“I see you!” not “Good job!”
Unconditional Parenting by Alfie Kohn is the perfect read if you are looking to get out of the praise/punishment cycle that I think most of us suffered from in our childhood. I think the effect of praise, in particular, during my childhood still continues to affect me negatively today. It’s such a mind bender because it seems like a wonderful thing to let your kid know that you are proud, or that you think they did a good job. We have found though, through research and experience, that the best way to stifle a child’s natural interest is to praise them. Start with Kohn’s book, it is essential, in my opinion.
Also visit the Natural Parenting Center for more examples of neutrality and using unconditional parenting in real life.
Thanks Alyssa!
Hitting Isn’t “Nice”
When you tell a child that something they are doing “isn’t nice” you are lying. Nothing ever falls into such a succinct category. What we usually mean to say is we don’t like what the child is doing or that we are concerned someone else might not like what they are doing. We are trying to communicate our feelings when we say something like this, but we are failing. If we want kids to tell us how they are feeling or care about other people’s feelings then let’s start by modeling that. It would be better to say, “Wow! I feel worried you guys are going to get hurt with that game!” or “Hey, I feel sad when you hit her,” or simply show you care about everyone’s feelings by asking them how they feel about what is going on. In this video Xi and Echo demonstrate that on this day, in this moment, hitting is fine (and fun!).
There is no “nice”, there are only feelings in reaction to actions and these change moment to moment, day to day.







